The Gender Dysphoria & Transgender Debate: A Foundation Conversation [Almost Awakened: 181]

I am 20 minutes into this podcast, so I grant that I have not heard everything you say in it by a long shot, but I am struggling to continue listening because of how you are laying out the framework for the discussion. I am a big proponent of listening to both sides of a debate when both sides are coming from a rational and open-minded perspective, and I believe that is your intent here. However, the topic of gender dysphoria and transgenderism is not up for debate as far as it applies to the RIGHTS of people with gender dysphoria and those who are transgender; and this discussion is speaking about the topic in a way that suggests that it’s the business of everyone on the planet to decide whether trans people should have the right to gender-affirming care, as if that right pivots on society as a whole agreeing with their medical decisions. I can think of no other discussion about healthcare where it matters what I think, what you think, or what anyone else aside from the medical experts think, other than the patient and their family (if a minor). Even the contentious debate on abortion is no parallel, as that discussion is complicated by the life of two beings – the mother AND the fetus (Still, although I may not agree with it, I believe that the decision is one for the woman and her doctor to make). Trans people’s choices about their own medical care do not physically impact anyone but themselves. Every major REPUTABLE medical associatiom (the AMA, APA, etc.) have come out in favor of gender-affirming care. That being the case, if the medical and scientific community believe gender-affirming care to be the proper treatment for gender dysphoria, who else’s opinion needs to be aligned with theirs in order for us to take the experts seriously? We are all entitled to our opinions about this topic as with any other. We are entitled to speak freely on it if we wish. What we are not free to do is impose our understanding of the topic on the trans community.

I am the mother of a young adult trans child (female to male). He was 17 when he came out as gay (while still identifying as female), 19 when he came out as trans, and now 22 years old, having transitioned medically and socially. I am a cradle Catholic, mother of 4, married for 25 years who raised her children in the Catholic Church. I have a an undergraduate, masters in theology, and law degree from the University of Notre Dame. I was a pastoral associate at a parish and later ran the MOMS ministry, assisted with adult education, and taught religious education in my parish for many years. In short, I was fully entrenched in and raising our kids in the Catholic Church. I understand the other side of the issue, because I was on the other side (not vocally but theologically and philosophically) for most of my life. My views began to shift years before my son came out or transitioned. But I was very ignorant about what it meant to be trans; to be fair it was not a common conversation for most of my life, since trans people have existed in the shadows for most of history.

It was a process to understand as much as I could about transgenderism, and I am far from perfect or done learning, but from day one of my child’s coming out, he was the first priority and I had to do a deep dive into the “old tapes” playing in my head in order to make room for my new beliefs, growth, and new knowledge and ideas. It’s not always easy but it’s worth it. My son is an amazing human being and I would be devastated to not have him in my life. I feel blessed that his authenticity has opened new pathways of love and acceptance and understanding to me and my family, including my 80 year old mother. Love indeed wins.

I tell you this so that you know that I know that people on both sides have the best of intentions and believe they are coming from a loving place. Even though they’re good people, they’re wrong. I have listened to many podcasts and read a lot of opinions and ideas on the trans subject. I am at the point where it infuriates me to hear people speak as if we don’t know what to believe or worse, as if their understanding of the subject is somehow important in the care available to trans people. It isn’t.

I appreciate people engaging on the subject and asking questions, wanting to learn and hopefully understand, and they may come to a different conclusion than me. But that is not the heart of the matter. The heart of it (and here there is a parallel to the abortion question) is WHO gets to decide. Is it you? Is it the government? It SHOULD be the trans person and, if they are under 18, their family.

The reputable medical community has already stated their view that gender dysphoria is real, trans people exist, and the appropriate medical response is gender-affirming care. Unlike what you state, there is very little information on the opposing side supporting banning gender-affirming care. The number of those who regret medical transition is extremely low (less than 1%). Social contagion as a reason for the uptick in trans visibility has been debunked. We have to start with listening to the person who is seeking treatment. As you DID say early on in the podcast, we are all on a spectrum in many senses, and gender is one of them. No two people are the same.

One podcast I listened to was obsessed with asking the doctors, “But how do you KNOW that this person is actually trans when you approve treatment? That is the wrong question. No one, even the person themselves, can know with absolute certainty that they will always experience gender as they do in this moment. But we know being trans is real and we know that it is, at its very core, a mismatch between mind and body with which the person was BORN. In addition, this question of, “But how do you know?” is being posed with trans youth, and the care they are seeking in almost every instance is puberty blockers. Puberty blockers have been used in the cisgender population for over 40 years to delay puberty. There is NO evidence of ill effects, only of the intended effects to halt puberty until the proper age. Testosterone and estrogen are also given to youth for things like insulin resistance, as well as to induce puberty in those who are significantly delayed. Where is the all moral outrage about these uses of hormones in children?!?? By endocrinologists?? There is none, because it is not a POLITICAL issue, it is a MEDICAL issue, and everyone trusts the doctors to prescribe the best treatment for cisgender people. Why is the diagnosis of gender dysphoria treated any differently? Because you or I don’t understand it? We think it’s wrong? Who cares?!? That’s on us.

Additionally, medicine is an art not a science. Perhaps there will come a day when there will be a superior treatment for gender dysphoria; maybe people will even be able to remain in the body they were born with and there will be a treatment that addresses their neurobiology and allows the two to be aligned. Maybe not. And if so, there will then be debates about whether people should be allowed to seek surgery for gender-affirming care or if they should be forced to stick with a treatment that alters their brain, much like arguments within the deaf community about cochlear implants. And guess what? It should STILL be up to the individual and their family.

My point is that I believe that you are asking the wrong questions. I am in favor of discussing transgenderism all day long, trying to assist people in understanding what it is and why trans people deserve access to the appropriate treatments, and how transgenderism is not what most people think it is. In other words, educate people on the reality of the trans population; help them to accept something that may make no sense to them but to acknowledge that it is not their choice whether a trans person receives treatment or not.

This does not mean that trans people should just be handed hormones on the street. Medical ethics professionals set the standards for appropriate care and that should always include a doctor evaluating the patient and making sure that there are not factors at play that are influencing their thinking and decision-making. Doctors should be able to set limits, just like with someone who has body dysmorphia and seeks an unhealthy amount of plastic surgeries. That is different than the government or the public deciding what proper treatment is and whether it should
be available to trans people.

The reason people are calling your guest a transphobe is because he is asking the wrong questions and fostering the wrong discussion. There is certainly vitriol on both sides, but one side is trying to repress the rights of self-determination of those seeking care and the other is fighting for the rights of trans people. I don’t agree with any violence or despicable wishes being hurled at those who are against them, but I can understand the anger and frustration at someone telling them, “We haven’t yet decided that your existence and your freedom to access medical care is valid.”

I plan to listen to the rest of your podcast if my emotions don’t get the better of me. I appreciate you engaging on the topic and having the discussion, but as I said, you are asking the wrong questions. Education is sorely needed and that’s a valid conversation to have. Saying that there is strong evidence on both sides or that there are “good people” on both sides is not, not because they aren’t good people but because their understanding is misguided despite their (good?) intentions. It’s kind of like Christians saying that if they truly love gay people they have to tell them the truth about the moral wrongs they are committing by being themselves and having same sex relationships. No.

Someday, we will look back on this era in history regarding trans people as shameful and so hurtful, just like we do on our history of homosexuality, and people of color. The majority will come to understand how misguided they were or they will die off and be replaced by these new generations who are showing us the grace and compassion we ourselves as adults should be showing their peers. I hope this time comes sooner rather than later. Thank you for allowing me to share my perspective.

2 Replies to “The Gender Dysphoria & Transgender Debate: A Foundation Conversation [Almost Awakened: 181]”

Allison Miller says:

May 25, 2024 at 7:15 pm

I am 20 minutes into this podcast, so I grant that I have not heard everything you say in it by a long shot, but I am struggling to continue listening because of how you are laying out the framework for the discussion. I am a big proponent of listening to both sides of a debate when both sides are coming from a rational and open-minded perspective, and I believe that is your intent here. However, the topic of gender dysphoria and transgenderism is not up for debate as far as it applies to the RIGHTS of people with gender dysphoria and those who are transgender; and this discussion is speaking about the topic in a way that suggests that it’s the business of everyone on the planet to decide whether trans people should have the right to gender-affirming care, as if that right pivots on society as a whole agreeing with their medical decisions. I can think of no other discussion about healthcare where it matters what I think, what you think, or what anyone else aside from the medical experts think, other than the patient and their family (if a minor). Even the contentious debate on abortion is no parallel, as that discussion is complicated by the life of two beings – the mother AND the fetus (Still, although I may not agree with it, I believe that the decision is one for the woman and her doctor to make). Trans people’s choices about their own medical care do not physically impact anyone but themselves. Every major REPUTABLE medical associatiom (the AMA, APA, etc.) have come out in favor of gender-affirming care. That being the case, if the medical and scientific community believe gender-affirming care to be the proper treatment for gender dysphoria, who else’s opinion needs to be aligned with theirs in order for us to take the experts seriously? We are all entitled to our opinions about this topic as with any other. We are entitled to speak freely on it if we wish. What we are not free to do is impose our understanding of the topic on the trans community.

I am the mother of a young adult trans child (female to male). He was 17 when he came out as gay (while still identifying as female), 19 when he came out as trans, and now 22 years old, having transitioned medically and socially. I am a cradle Catholic, mother of 4, married for 25 years who raised her children in the Catholic Church. I have a an undergraduate, masters in theology, and law degree from the University of Notre Dame. I was a pastoral associate at a parish and later ran the MOMS ministry, assisted with adult education, and taught religious education in my parish for many years. In short, I was fully entrenched in and raising our kids in the Catholic Church. I understand the other side of the issue, because I was on the other side (not vocally but theologically and philosophically) for most of my life. My views began to shift years before my son came out or transitioned. But I was very ignorant about what it meant to be trans; to be fair it was not a common conversation for most of my life, since trans people have existed in the shadows for most of history.

It was a process to understand as much as I could about transgenderism, and I am far from perfect or done learning, but from day one of my child’s coming out, he was the first priority and I had to do a deep dive into the “old tapes” playing in my head in order to make room for my new beliefs, growth, and new knowledge and ideas. It’s not always easy but it’s worth it. My son is an amazing human being and I would be devastated to not have him in my life. I feel blessed that his authenticity has opened new pathways of love and acceptance and understanding to me and my family, including my 80 year old mother. Love indeed wins.

I tell you this so that you know that I know that people on both sides have the best of intentions and believe they are coming from a loving place. Even though they’re good people, they’re wrong. I have listened to many podcasts and read a lot of opinions and ideas on the trans subject. I am at the point where it infuriates me to hear people speak as if we don’t know what to believe or worse, as if their understanding of the subject is somehow important in the care available to trans people. It isn’t.

I appreciate people engaging on the subject and asking questions, wanting to learn and hopefully understand, and they may come to a different conclusion than me. But that is not the heart of the matter. The heart of it (and here there is a parallel to the abortion question) is WHO gets to decide. Is it you? Is it the government? It SHOULD be the trans person and, if they are under 18, their family.

The reputable medical community has already stated their view that gender dysphoria is real, trans people exist, and the appropriate medical response is gender-affirming care. Unlike what you state, there is very little information on the opposing side supporting banning gender-affirming care. The number of those who regret medical transition is extremely low (less than 1%). Social contagion as a reason for the uptick in trans visibility has been debunked. We have to start with listening to the person who is seeking treatment. As you DID say early on in the podcast, we are all on a spectrum in many senses, and gender is one of them. No two people are the same.

One podcast I listened to was obsessed with asking the doctors, “But how do you KNOW that this person is actually trans when you approve treatment? That is the wrong question. No one, even the person themselves, can know with absolute certainty that they will always experience gender as they do in this moment. But we know being trans is real and we know that it is, at its very core, a mismatch between mind and body with which the person was BORN. In addition, this question of, “But how do you know?” is being posed with trans youth, and the care they are seeking in almost every instance is puberty blockers. Puberty blockers have been used in the cisgender population for over 40 years to delay puberty. There is NO evidence of ill effects, only of the intended effects to halt puberty until the proper age. Testosterone and estrogen are also given to youth for things like insulin resistance, as well as to induce puberty in those who are significantly delayed. Where is the all moral outrage about these uses of hormones in children?!?? By endocrinologists?? There is none, because it is not a POLITICAL issue, it is a MEDICAL issue, and everyone trusts the doctors to prescribe the best treatment for cisgender people. Why is the diagnosis of gender dysphoria treated any differently? Because you or I don’t understand it? We think it’s wrong? Who cares?!? That’s on us.

Additionally, medicine is an art not a science. Perhaps there will come a day when there will be a superior treatment for gender dysphoria; maybe people will even be able to remain in the body they were born with and there will be a treatment that addresses their neurobiology and allows the two to be aligned. Maybe not. And if so, there will then be debates about whether people should be allowed to seek surgery for gender-affirming care or if they should be forced to stick with a treatment that alters their brain, much like arguments within the deaf community about cochlear implants. And guess what? It should STILL be up to the individual and their family.

My point is that I believe that you are asking the wrong questions. I am in favor of discussing transgenderism all day long, trying to assist people in understanding what it is and why trans people deserve access to the appropriate treatments, and how transgenderism is not what most people think it is. In other words, educate people on the reality of the trans population; help them to accept something that may make no sense to them but to acknowledge that it is not their choice whether a trans person receives treatment or not.

This does not mean that trans people should just be handed hormones on the street. Medical ethics professionals set the standards for appropriate care and that should always include a doctor evaluating the patient and making sure that there are not factors at play that are influencing their thinking and decision-making. Doctors should be able to set limits, just like with someone who has body dysmorphia and seeks an unhealthy amount of plastic surgeries. That is different than the government or the public deciding what proper treatment is and whether it should
be available to trans people.

The reason people are calling your guest a transphobe is because he is asking the wrong questions and fostering the wrong discussion. There is certainly vitriol on both sides, but one side is trying to repress the rights of self-determination of those seeking care and the other is fighting for the rights of trans people. I don’t agree with any violence or despicable wishes being hurled at those who are against them, but I can understand the anger and frustration at someone telling them, “We haven’t yet decided that your existence and your freedom to access medical care is valid.”

I plan to listen to the rest of your podcast if my emotions don’t get the better of me. I appreciate you engaging on the topic and having the discussion, but as I said, you are asking the wrong questions. Education is sorely needed and that’s a valid conversation to have. Saying that there is strong evidence on both sides or that there are “good people” on both sides is not, not because they aren’t good people but because their understanding is misguided despite their (good?) intentions. It’s kind of like Christians saying that if they truly love gay people they have to tell them the truth about the moral wrongs they are committing by being themselves and having same sex relationships. No.

Someday, we will look back on this era in history regarding trans people as shameful and so hurtful, just like we do on our history of homosexuality, and people of color. The majority will come to understand how misguided they were or they will die off and be replaced by these new generations who are showing us the grace and compassion we ourselves as adults should be showing their peers. I hope this time comes sooner rather than later. Thank you for allowing me to share my perspective.

Kay L. O. says:

June 12, 2024 at 6:39 pm

This was just about the worst “debate” I’ve ever listened to. Not sure of either of these dudes credentials, but I don’t think they are qualified to speak on this subject at all. Essentially this boils down to 2 hours of Jon Streeter being quietly transphobic while wailing on a strawman (which he builds) of post modernism while Bill nods quietly and occaisonally butts in trying to sound profound. Absolute trash. Maybe consult a real transgender person next time, assholes.

2 Replies to “The Gender Dysphoria & Transgender Debate: A Foundation Conversation [Almost Awakened: 181]”

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